Why Clinton’s NH Win Hurts

SFGate:

The homegrown, Granite State feel of the Clinton organization mimicked that of Sen. John Kerry’s 2004 win here.

And we all remember how well that worked out.

There are a host of reasons why people oppose Hillary. Some are pigs who can’t stand the idea of a woman in power. Some are Republicans with an irrational hatred of the man who spent 8 years proving how useless the Republican party was, and anyone associated with him. But some are liberals like me. So what’s our problem?

Part of it is obvious on the surface. Clinton is more than a mushy centrist. She is a full blown conservative on many issues. When the conservative media garishly paints her in liberal colors, they are being about as accurate as attempts to paint the theocrat Huckabee as moderate or even liberal. Not buying it.

But the big reason is that Hillary Clinton doesn’t listen. And once she has power there is no reason to believe she will start.

I’ll support Hillary in the general over whatever raving autocrat the Republicans finally settle on. But her win in the primaries hurts the Democratic party. It rewards the spineless politics of leaving principles at home in the rush to the center, and marginalizes the politics of courage and hope. We can be so much more as a party. We can be brave, we can be liberal.

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33 Responses

  1. So you would support hillary who voted for iraq war, voted to go to war with iran, voted for the patriot act, over ron paul? well you sure do tow the party line, ill give you that. Not that I think ron paul will get the nomination, this isnt a perfect world.

  2. Yea read around brian. That’s what this site is all about. If Satan were running as a democrat over Jesus as a republican this site would have it’s ip changed to 666.666.666. Right, wrong, good, bad, logic, sensibility, thought, none of it matters if the decision comes down to left or right. The left right party affiliation is one of the biggest obstacles/problems in this nation yet it is the most tenaciously defended policies.

  3. brian,
    Ron Paul is a really sick joke. He’s a strict isolationist who opposes civil rights and hate crime legislation, a racist super Christian who opposes gay rights and a women’s right to choose. He just manages to trick people because he limits these positions to the state level.

    But that is beside the point. Paul is no longer in the race. It is a four way battle royal between Romney, Rudy, McCain and Huckabee. And Hillary stands a great deal taller than any of them ethically and practically.

  4. I would argue with you about what you just said but I know it would be a waste of time, so I’ll just ask you how many people has hillary clintons decisions killed, and how many have ron pauls killed? Not to mention who would be better for our economy, although im sure you would disagree with that too.

  5. This is what we get from Dumbocrats and Repubicans. But Dan would have everyone think that it’s only the right that is pissing on this nation all the while he is being willfully ignorant of the real world. His rhetoric is a liberal love fest that he feels will save the world because of it’s inherent want to do good. Yet if you watch closely all the Dumbs and the Pubics do the same thing. They all know the right thing to do but they vote with the biggest lobby. I guess Dan should be commended for his staunch party loyalty but it comes at the cost of the nations well being. Dan also has no qualms about raising taxes to pay for just about anything as long as the left supports it. His narrow minded approach shows just how committed he is to the party when he ignores any Dumbocrats past records yet writes pages of what he believes to be inconsistency and detrimental politics of Ron Paul just because he is a Republican.

    Dan is another drone for the two party system and deserves the government he gets. Unfortunately the real world will suffer while the brainwashed party loyalists ejaculate over any Dumbocrat that gets elected over any Repubican regardless of their poor attempts to do anything positive for the U.S. When it all comes down to the wire we the people are being stepped on by the politics as usual and there is no distinction between parties other than the split in the moral fabric of the nation that the two party system results in. It’s like the saying “he loves the game but he hates the players.” The sick joke here is that if you like one team and hate the other team then you don’t really like the game you like the team. Problem with Dan’s pathetic logic is that he refuses to acknowledge a great many realities and stands firmly by his team while talking trash about the other team. Here is where he is a drone. He knows the game can’t be played with only one team so for all his hate he doesn’t really like the game unless his team wins. Playing games with our country is a travesty.

  6. If anything can be learned of fitnessfortheoccasions perverted message it is this.

    OLD VERSION:
    The ant
    works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter

    The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

    Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.

    The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

    MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself!
    ————————————————————
    MODERN VERSION:

    The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

    Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

    CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

    How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

    Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody cries when they sing, ‘It’s Not Easy Being Green.’

    Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant’s house where the news stations film the group singing, ‘We shall overcome.’ Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper’s sake.

    Nancy Pelosi & John Kerry exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has
    gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

    Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

    The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.

    Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill Clinton appointed from a list of single-parent
    welfare recipients.

    The ant loses the case.

    The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government house he is in, which just happens
    to be the ant’s old house, crumbles around him because he doesn’t maintain it.

    The ant has disappeared in the snow.

    The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

    MORAL OF THE STORY: Be careful how you vote.

  7. Wow, I never seen such a collection of unfounded assumptions and ideological driven non sense.

    Michael D

    You are a Ron Paul supporter, correct?

    What party is Ron Paul a member of?

    What party nomination is he seeking?

    Also, at no time has Dan or anyone else suggested that laziness should be rewarded. On the contrary, hard work, especially of those who strain to make ends meet should be rewarded in full. Your “modern” fable is entertaining, but unless you can link it to something Dan has said on this blog, its just that, a fable.

  8. And at the risk of sounding like a “leftist” elitist, I got to wonder, why do some (two or three) Ron Paul supporters come back to this blog again and again even though they clearly don’t like the positions taken by its author or the gist of its dialog?

    The one thing that this election has proven is that a loud voice on the Internet does not translate to a equally loud voice in the real world. If that where the case, Ron Paul would be winning more than %15 of the electorate in the primaries.

    Do you know of any state where Ron Paul might, in fact, win?

  9. “Do you know of any state where Ron Paul might, in fact, win?”

    Had he been afforded fair and equal coverage in the media I know that 15% would be on the low side as his message is sound and he makes sense to most reasonable intelligent people. But that wasn’t the case was it? No it was far from the case. Even after he raised record breaking contributions he was and is still snubbed. I wonder why the media couldn’t bring themselves to be at least fair if not equal? At least equal because it’s the law!!!! Fair because it’s the right thing to do.

    Ron Paul happens to be a republican and as I have stated in prior posts I would vote for him no matter what party he is in. Like MLK said “it’s the content of your character”, so bite me on that.

    I come back for the reasons I have stated in past posts. And also to keep you people from dancing off into the bliss with your fairytale ideas of how government should take care of us from cradle to grave. All that delicious stupid as Dan calls it. It’s that very same attitude that has put us in the shitty position we are currently in as a nation (a never ending war and on the verge of a recession that all candidates except Ron Paul have voted for repeatedly).

    Dan has a tax and spend attitude there is plenty of record of his position on this. He supports welfare (laziness) and he is a socialist. He supports amnesty for all those lazy (cut the line to illegally enter the country) illegals. He doesn’t support states rights even though it’s the law.

    “Wow, I never seen such a collection of unfounded assumptions and ideological driven non sense.”
    Of course you have you just don’t acknowledge it unless it’s not your party. You read it all the time from Dan.

    I make points and provide facts and they are dismissed by your fearless leader Dan with psychobabble. He thinks he’s smarter, better and more moral than everyone. He doesn’t have an open mind. I don’t not like him I just differ sharply from his opinions. He’s not asked me to leave and I believe he likes to think he’s beating me up with his wits. He may just enjoy having a differing opinion around to prove his might but he hasn’t asked me to leave and has even expressed a sentiment for me to not leave when I thought I might at one point. I have brought a couple of people (not republicans) to this site to join in the discussion and they think I am wasting my time here. I do not feel I am wasting my time. I am attempting to bring ideas.

    So what’s your point ralfast? Do you want me to go away?

  10. So basically your saying that the Republican grassroots are so easily manipulated by the media. In that case, why is Ron Paul still in Republican party? As for money raised, we now know that money does not equal votes, as Huckabee proved (at least he did in Iowa).

    As for “you” people? What is that supposed to mean, exactly. And as for Dan been a socialist, you make it sound so, evil.

    As for state rights, no it is not the law, since it depends on how you read the X amendment, and its pretty vague.

    As for been my party, well I am not a Democrat or a Republican. So we don’t belong to the same party. The Dems have a lot to answer for too.

    Have you actually met a so called “illegal”? Lazy….yeah you go pick fruit 10 hours a day (or more) in the height of summer and then call yourself lazy. Have you actually considered that these so called “illegals” can only get into the country one way. That or languish in their home nations with no jobs and no futures. People who cross deserts and shark infested waters don’t look to me as being lazy, desperate yes, but not lazy. I guess your definition of lazy is very different from that of everybody else.

    Welfare lazy, some I know, but welfare is a catch 22, those that work get their benefits cut, which means they go from been in welfare to been working poor, same whole different name.

    As for you going away, that is not the point i was just wondering what attracted you to this site, even though you clearly believe that the author is so deluded and out of touch with reality. I think your friends are right, you seem to be wasting your time.

  11. I’ve worked a lot harder than picking veggies in the hot sun for ten hours a day. I’ve framed hundreds of houses in the North East since I was a teenager. That means I’ve run the whole gambit. The other day when it was 10 degrees out I bet no person in the sun wanted my job of passing up 90 pound sheets of advantech sub floor on 1 1/2″ wide ice covered joists at 16″ on center. 10 feet in the air. And likewise in the summer when it’s 96 degrees and I have to be on a 11″ wide plank 10 feet in the air pulling up 22 foot 140 pound hem fir rafters ain’t one of the guys picking veggies wants my job. Or roofing I don’t need to tell you about that I bet. I’m sure you know how taxing that is. And best yet ralfest I do it for the same prices now that I charged 10+ years ago because these supposedly not lazy immigrants can underbid me because they were too lazy to get citizenship the hard way so of course they don’t need to get insurance or licenses so they don’t have the same overhead I have so they can underbid me by 50% or more sometimes. Weakening my industry and forcing me to make some difficult decisions about how my life is going to play out. You have no concept so Fuck you!! I had an illegal that was my friends cousin and my friend asked me to give him a job. So I did. He was spanish and couldn’t speak english as he had just arrived. I began learning spanish to communicate and I paid him a decent wage and I taught him a lot about life and language and carpentry through the fall and when winter came it was too much for him and he moved on to installing flooring and I helped him get situated. Yes I know and illegal or two. My significant other is an immigrant and so is her entire family and I love them and I love and respect many people from many cultures as I have many friends and family of many varying ethnicities. My sister in law is an immigrant as is her entire family that I love. Asians from Asia. They laugh at the word cunt. They call it hoi which means clam. Call a spade a spade and it still digs dirt. The shovel not the derogatory term for an African American which is called a Negro as I am a Caucasian. There is nothing wrong with the way I view ethnicities there is something wrong though, when I am called bigot, anti semite, etc. and a whole slew of other nonsense because I am honest about the truths of racial differences. I’m not a hateful person and I am not an ignorant person. I am an unappreciated dreg of society. I am a carpenter. The same variety that has always been around and in one way or another has been crucified for furnishing goods made of wood. There you go… That’s me… Who are you? What do you contribute to the good of mankind ralfast? How have you become such a judge of others? And a judge of freedom? Let me ask you this. When people come from Asia to this country is it as difficult as swimming through sharks? Really I want you to explain the difficulties of illegally immigrating over the ocean v.s sneaking across a border. Cmon it must be that easy for them right? No it isn’t. They come here and contribute to society and are productive and assimilate and feel offended as people cross the souther and northern border and don’t go through what they went through. They are line cutters to people from across the pond that played by the LAW!!!

    I”ll explain Ron Paul as a republican. Ready dopey. He’s completely aware that the two party system is the only game in town as any other party is hacked by the press and any other means so as to not upset the two party system. By running as a present day republican (which he truly is the only real republican of the candidates) he is using the “system” to further the intended constitutional republic. This is not a democracy nor was it ever intended to be. Wake up!!! Why do I have to explain history to you? Because the department of education is worthless? Yup it is. Do away with it and people like you will know this. By people like you I mean closed or narrow minded fools.

    It’s not very sporting of me to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person but you asked for it.

  12. So he was not lazy, this guy you taught. He worked for a living. He risked going through the hot desert or in the case of Haitians and Cubans, shark infested waters. Did he take your job away? Why you stop calling people that come to the U.S. to work lazy like thousands of Chinese who stuff themselves into cargo containers and then ow their entire lives to local gangs.

    But I guess if you feel the need to insult people, go right ahead. And what does the Department of Education has to do with any of this. I would hold up a mirror, but I doubt you would recognize yourself in it.

  13. It seems you are carrying a lot of personal baggage, baggage that has nothing to do with “illegals”, “laziness”, the “goverment” or anything else.

    Are you a “dreg”? I am in no position to judge, I was taught that an honest job is done by honest people regardless of what that job might be. But instead you seem to be blaming everybody else for your lot in life.

    Do you think they don’t want better wages, drivers licenses and home to call their own. Why do you think they are here in the first place. Do you think that if they could work for $6 or $8 or $12 hours they would pass it up because what they really want is to screw with you?

    And what pray tell have you taught me?

  14. I’m guessing from your response that you didn’t comprehend anything I said.

  15. It makes me sad to have to tell you that the Modern version of the ant and the grasshopper story happens all the time in real life. So no it’s not just a fable.

  16. Now now michael, whos country do you think this is, yours, or the illegal immigrants?

  17. brian,
    That is a really good question. I’m planning on doing a “policy and position death count” post. Where Ron Paul doesn’t kill people with war, his idiotic free market approach will leave many dead. That said, Hillary’s position on the war is abominable. Honestly I really need to think about that point, and reconsider my position on voting for Hillary. She’s against the war now, but she took far too long coming to that position.

    Michael D,
    You are just a clueless idiot. Try keeping your comments shorter, that might help you focus a little better.

    ralfast,
    Thank you for fighting the good fight. Michael D often adds his charming little nonsense rambles to our discussions, and its getting tiresome yelling at a brick wall.

    (And btw, “Do you know of any state where Ron Paul might, in fact, win?” Zing!)

    Michael D,
    ralfast has not only understood your disconnected and confused responses (no small feat), he has parried and countered every major point you’ve made, and struck at the foundation you made them on.

    brian,
    No one is falling for that false choice. Besides, if I may quote a dangerous commie and an amazing soul: “This land was made for you and me”. It isn’t anyone’s “land”. Illegal immigration is a problem we need to tackle, but without the racism, and with a practical real world appreciation for the effects of both strong and lax enforcement.

  18. Clueless idiot? Here is where you truly acknowledge your ignorance. I have presented clear and consistent language that appears to be beyond your realm of comprehension still. Narrow mindedness is not a desirable skill Dan.

    You are getting more pathetic by the response Dan. Ralfast did not understand as was evident by his convoluted response that not only didn’t address my points but skated right by them just as you do every time I make more sense than you can handle. Beyond that, ralfasts lack of command of the English language while responding to my department of education point is evidence of how catering to non English speaking students is harmful to legitimate students.

    Zing? Not addressing my response was a zing? You are sad. Perhaps old age is taking its toll on you as it is said that the mind is the first thing to go.

  19. Michael,
    I’m just getting tired, every response, of reading your own words back to you to illustrate that just maybe, your arguments aren’t the paragon of reasoned discourse you make them out the be. Outside of your head and all the issues you clearly need to work through, the world is a much different place.

    ralfast actually did address your points, and further, he questioned the reasoning behind them.

    But let’s take a look at just one of your arguments, since its right here in your latest gem of a response.

    Beyond that, ralfasts lack of command of the English language while responding to my department of education point is evidence of how catering to non English speaking students is harmful to legitimate students.

    Let’s take that ridiculous claim at face value. How would one person’s comments on a blog constitute evidence that:

    1. The US education system failed them.
    2. Bilingual education was to blame for this failure.

    Do you Michael, know where ralfast went to school? Are you certain he was raised in the States? Do you think it possible that sometimes one’s grammar online is not necessarily indicative of grammar overall (you yourself have “questionable English” moments)? Are you ready to discount the general problems the US has conveying proper grammar and communications skills across the board, even in districts with no bilingual education?

    So while I’m sure you thought you were making sense there, no, you weren’t. Your argument made gross assumptions and was poorly constructed.

  20. “brian,
    No one is falling for that false choice. Besides, if I may quote a dangerous commie and an amazing soul: “This land was made for you and me”. It isn’t anyone’s “land”. Illegal immigration is a problem we need to tackle, but without the racism, and with a practical real world appreciation for the effects of both strong and lax enforcement.”

    Ok, so this isnt usa and the illegal immigrants arent illegal at all? You would happily let as many people come here as they wanted? All of Mexico will eventually be here. Isnt there a point where We as legal citizens can stand up and say I;m mad as hell and Im not gonna take it anymore? It isnt anybodys land? That’s how the native americans thought and how far did it get them… I fail to see how it;s racist to say we’re gonna send any illegals we find, back to most likely mexico. I think you are so scared of being a racist that you would let every mexican citizen into the country illegally. But i guess it is racist to enforce the law, so what choice do you have? But I dont give 2 shits if we have illegal immigrants from Europe, or any white countries kick them all the fuck out, sorry you can wait in line like plenty of other immigrants have.

    I understand on the one hand most illegals are hard working honest people, but on the other hand they are here illegally.

  21. And a strong free market economy will kill over a million people? No a healthy middle class will not kill millions of people.

  22. brian,
    an unregulated market does not lead to a middle class, it destroys it, as it is doing now. And how come regulating immigration is ok? Isn’t that just labor markets in flux?

    I do think we need to take stronger steps on illegal immigration, just we need to do so with, you know, intelligence and without the racist phobia that pierces the conservative approach.

    “I think you are so scared of being a racist that you would let every mexican citizen into the country illegally.” Making assumptions isn’t generally the best way to make a point.

  23. So how have we ever had a strong middle class in this nation?

    and using corporatism which is what we seem to have now, atleast a mild form, to justify the fact free market economys dont work isnt a valid argument.

    “an unregulated market does not lead to a middle class, it destroys it, as it is doing now. And how come regulating immigration is ok? Isn’t that just labor markets in flux?”

    And monopolies happen too, but im not suggesting just becuase they happen we should let it happen. And the labor market would always be in flux for labor you can underpay.

    I dunno I’m no economist, I need to learn a lot more.

  24. brian,

    So how have we ever had a strong middle class in this nation?

    We don’t have a free market currently, and throughout our history we have seen a fluctuation of worker rights and market regulations. At times they were appropriate towards building the middle class, at times not.

    and using corporatism which is what we seem to have now, atleast a mild form, to justify the fact free market economys dont work isnt a valid argument.

    The destruction of the middle class and concentration of corporate power is coming from a loosening, not a tightening, of market regulations.

  25. So what do we have now? Corporatism? I dont support that and I wouldnt be against policies that stop that and protect the middle class and have it thrive.

    and yes tax cuts for the richest 1% cant possibly help the middle class.

    But at the same time neither does 20 million illegals immigrants. Unless you are the one getting rich off their underpaid labor.

    But isnt corporatism by definition the result of government in bed with big business?

  26. I think the way illegal immigration affects this country is far more complex than we realize. But we agree it is a problem we need to address. We also agree on tax cuts for the rich being a bad idea, and corporatism being bad.

    Corporatism is interesting. It is more about placing power in the hands of corporations. Lack of proper market regulation can have this affect, as can improper collusion on the part of governments. Same fire, just started with different fuels.

    (We seem to be getting pretty off topic in a lot of these threads.)

  27. Well this is a much more interesting and important topic than new hampshire primaries, atleast to me.

    But every politician has made government bigger for how long? Even Reagan the 2nd coming of jesus to conservatives, increased the size of government.

    Seems like the middle class is hit hard by things like the debt, and the weakening of the dollar. Both results from big government.

    We havent had a free market for quite some time. So you cant blame the problems we have on a free market.

  28. I firmly believe giving more power to the government wont solve a government created problem./

  29. brian,
    Corporatism is a very worthy topic, but perhaps I should do a new post (I often think of far more to write about than I actually have time. I still want to do my candidate death toll post).

    Politicians modify government in profoundly different ways. We don’t have a black and white problem, where we either have government or not. It is a question of what government looks like, and what it does. And I do think we can solve problems created by governments though governments. Otherwise why elect anyone at all?

    Debt is a complex issue, but a lot of it comes from the shrinking purchasing power of the middle class, and rising spending from consumerism and rising prices on everything from basics like milk to college education. So I’d say debt is a symptom, rather than the cause.

    The weakening of the dollar is partially coming from our government’s reckless spending and tax cuts, partially from the general difficulties that arise when the middle class gets weaker (a healthy middle class builds a healthy and fluid economy).

    These two points are not the end word on the cause of the shrinking middle class.

    Some of the problems we are facing regarding the middle class are a direct result of removing restrictions on the market (or simply not putting those restrictions in place). Predatory lending is one good example.

    When there is no one to say “you can’t do that”, history has shown with a blunt and bloody object that some people “do that” anyway. An unregulated market is not practical.

    However we do have an important common ground, in that I think we’d both agree finding ways to make government directly answerable to the people, and increasing our control over our government is essential to our survival as a nation.

  30. I mean debt as in national debt, more than personal debt. But neither are good.

    But inflation as well as national debt results from just printing up as much money as we need without really considering the consequences. Or the government not really giving a shit about what is good for the common man. So that leads me to the obvious answer that spending is the problem, which is why I think we need a true conservative, because neither neo cons or liberals seem to curb spending. hence my support for ron paul.

  31. Not that I want to turn this into another argument about ron paul or racism.

    “However we do have an important common ground, in that I think we’d both agree finding ways to make government directly answerable to the people, and increasing our control over our government is essential to our survival as a nation.”

    Well theres something we can agree on.

  32. brian,
    Why does a government’s mistakes suggest that government is by nature incapable of correct action?

    Well theres something we can agree on.

    Huzzah! Progress! Now let’s work to make sure every candidate supports transparency in government, election reform, and media reform. A real civics education wouldn’t hurt either. (That’d be a start).

  33. ok Just to make sure you get it. If the treasury has one dollar backed by a dollars worth of whatever and they print another dollar then the two dollars are still equal to the the one dollars worth of junk that backed them in the first place. What the fed does is print one hundred dollars and backs it up with a dollars worth of whatever. So each dollar printed is worth 1/100 of the related backing. That’s where inflation comes from and why prices on goods skyrocket. So why can’t you understand Paul’s position on this?

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