Ron Paul, Nutjob

David of Orcinus has a very detailed must read post about Ron Paul (emphasis mine):

A more important point, though, that’s overlooked in all this is that Ron Paul has made a career out of transmitting extremist beliefs, particularly far-right conspiracy theories about a looming “New World Order,” into the mainstream of public discourse by reframing and repackaging them for wider consumption, mostly by studiously avoiding the more noxious and often racist elements of those beliefs. Along the way, he has built a long record of appearing before and lending the credibility of his office to a whole array of truly noxious organizations, and has a loyal following built in no small part on members of those groups.

And it’s equally important to understand that he hasn’t changed his beliefs appreciably in the interim. Most of his positions today — including his opposition to the Iraq war — are built on this same shoddy foundation of far-right conspiracism and extremist belief systems, particularly long-debunked theories about the “New World Order,” the Federal Reserve and our monetary system, the IRS, and the education system.

Much of this has already been documented by Sara here and here, as well as by phenry at dKos (who has more here) and by Off the Kuff, which also notes Paul’s kookery on Social Security.

David goes on to discuss issues of racism, conspiracy theories, and the very good reasons why Ron Paul is not a top tier candidate. Where I think Paul is the most dangerous is in his transmission of truly extremist ideas into the mainstream (emphasis mine):

What Paul never explained was that one of the primary sources for this information about black crime came from Jared Taylor, the pseudo-academic racist whose magazine American Renaissance was at the time embarked on a long series of tirades on the subject (the June 1992 issue was primarily devoted to the subject; the statistic claiming that 85 percent of black men in D.C. have been arrested appears in the August issue), the culmination of which was Taylor’s later book, The Color of Crime, which made similarly unsupportable claims about blacks.

This sort of unspoken dalliance — an uncredited transmission of ideas, as it were — takes place all the time with far-right politicos like Ron Paul. It’s one of the reasons to be concerned about any traction they may actually gain within the mainstream.

This makes you wonder about some of the talking points in the current immigration debate.

Ron Paul is an attractive candidate to some because of the way he cuts party lines with his stance on Iraq, and that unmistakable libertarian mystique that never seems to find a willing host to be put into practice. However the man’s good points cannot and should not overshadow his role as a pusher for far-right/racist/fascist positions.

what is unmistakably, ineluctably true about Ron Paul is that he is an extremist: a conspiracy theorist, a fear-monger, and an outright nutcase when it comes to monetary, tax, and education policy. The more believers and sympathizers he gathers, the worse off the rest of us will be.

The left should no more make a political alliance with Ron Paul than with Dick Cheney. And the right should be looking for a better candidate. Even given the current field, one shouldn’t be too hard to find.

UPDATE: David cross posted at FireDogLake.  Comment #222 by Paul in LA sums it up quite nicely:

“Its about respect and integrity, attack the idea not the man.”

His association with rightwing extremist groups tells you everything about the man AND his ideas.

This is why Ron Paul is not a good candidate.  Linking to the constitution or arguing that he has good positions on some domestic issues misses the point entirely.  Ron Paul doesn’t just associate with rightwing extremist groups, he helps them sell their badly damaged goods to America.



41 Responses

  1. Ron Paul is a fear monger?


    What do you call the current crop of Dems and Republicans that all want to attack Iran? or that want us to give up all of our civil liberties in the face of “da terrists”?

    Ron Paul is a fascist? Do you even know what that word even means? Ron Paul is the only one interested in actually honoring his oath to uphold the constitution.

    I don’t see what is so nutty about

    1) Letting the states handle education

    2) Letting the states handle tax policy

    3) Not forcing people to accept federal reserve notes by threat of fines and imprisonment.

    Could you explain to me what is so extreme about these views?

  2. And btw, spending 2 minutes on google will find you plenty of refutation of these so-called racist views. In fact, he said it quite well during the last debate.

    “We need to stop looking at people in terms of groups like gay, straight, minorites, etc, and start looking at them in terms of individuals…this is the cause of many problems we face today”


  3. You’re a little late on this….that was written by Lew Rockwell not Paul.. Already been debunked and there’s no there there. Sorry!


    He is above reproach.

  4. You should judge the candidates based on who most adheres to their oath to the Constitution.

    RP’s record is unmatched.

  5. Yes, the founding father of this nation that gives you the right to call Ron Paul what you do also share his extremist views. The establishment of this nation you seem overly anxious to take for granted is one of the most extreem examples of government this world has ever known. Well, I should say, what this nation used to be. Thanks to Ron Paul I can clearly discern where our liberties have been massively eroded.

    What I would like to see is you personally share some of your own insights instead of referring to the works of others. If you don’t appreciate individual liberties, keeping what you earn and having a government you can trust, what do you stand for?

  6. You have much reading to do young one.
    The constitution is never an extremism.
    Nice, “hit-piece though”. Remember.”.It takes a village” of corruption to put a stooge into office.

  7. David of Orcinus is quoted dismissing “particularly long-debunked theories about the “New World Order,” the Federal Reserve and our monetary system, the IRS, and the education system”. This is lying-on-stilts. Ron Paul’s theories on all these issues have not been ‘long-debunked’ and David of Orcinus would debunk them if he could, but he can’t.

    Lying about Ron Paul’s positions is all that is left to his flagrantly dishonest opponents.

  8. You called Ron Paul a fascist??? Do you even know what that word means? I mean, seriously, saying that the US finacial system is screwed beyond belief is not a “conspiracy theory”.. We are borrowing 2 Billion Dollars a day from foreigners. And as for “racist”, well Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi are two of his heros… So go figure that one out.

  9. Nice attempt David of Orcinus. It is predicable. RUN PAUL RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. Truly pathetic smear campaign, can’t face Ron Paul’s ideas so you try to smear him as an anti-Jew racist or a fascist, what a joke.

    America today is fascist, every other candidate supports torture, guantanamo bay and nuking Iran without provocation, Ron Paul is the only man who will stand up to the military industrial complex, corruption in washington and the fascism of contemporary american politics.

    He is the last, best hope for America and it is truly sad you would try to cast aspersons on this man’s name.

    FYI the federal reserve system works against the interests of ordinary Americans to the benefit of a select few corporations, whether “intentional” or not, whether a “conspiracy” or not, that is its nature, and its unconscionable of you to shill for this corrupt corporatist entity.

  11. Another piece of ignorant trash writing.

    Oh my another character assassin with no

  12. He’s got my vote. There is nothing nutty about a desire for limited government and peace.

  13. You should have a good look at your own motivations, your article is a total slur and without supporting evidence. Fear based muck racking might impact a few uninformed folk but the US is already a fascist state. People ask serious questions and raise serious doubts about government and its automatically a conspiracy, everyone who raises such questions are a “nut job”. it easy to slander rather than deal with the issues at hand, its about the kind of country that we all want. The country is growing broke, the middle class is being eroded, our auto workers are working in Walmart, we have fialed to maintain the integrity of our borders, most of our politicians are immoral war mongers, we constantly invade other countries, our biggest indsutry is arms and we ship them all over the world, we kidnap and render folk all over the world, we hold people without trial for years, we run concentration camps, we train latin American terrorist on our own soil, our standard of living is falling behind , our crime rate is soaring. Despite this you refuse to consider there are systamic problems in our society and culture that need to be addressed, you want to accept the status quo and defend it.

    You dont want to engage in debate on this you want to stifle the free speech of your fellow countryman with fear based slurs. Why he dangerous, just dont call him anmes tell us why he is dangerous, dont try and scare us because frankly its the people like you that scare us .

    We might not have all the answers right, Paul will make policy mistakes like everyone, but dont attack his integrity for wanting to try new ideas. You may not agree with them, thats your right, put forward those ideas that is your right as well, tell us why he is wrong on issues, but dont try and sling mud and slur him , take him on on the issues and ideas.

  14. Wow, this generated a good deal of commentary.
    I’ll respond comment by comment:
    1. I didn’t say he was the only fear monger, certainly.
    Ron Paul supports fascist and racist groups in two ways.
    He patronizes and speaks at their functions, and he repackages
    their arguments to make them more palpable for a wider audience.
    You’re not nutty argument is a red herring.
    Those positions are clearly not what I take issue with.
    I find it problematic that this man appears before and repeats
    the arguments of organizations like the CCC and the League of the South.
    2. Care to provide a trustworthy example?
    Your Ron Paul paraphrase is actually a re-hashing of this:

    This is, in fact, just a repackaging of a libertarian argument that multiculturalism is the “new racism” — part of a larger right-wing attack on multiculturalism. This is, of course, sheer Newspeak: depicting a social milieu that simultaneously respects everyone’s heritage — that is to say, the antithesis of racism — as racist is simply up-is-down, Bizarro Universe thinking.

    It cuts against your point.
    3. Ok….. Are you saying the constitution means all of the evidence and arguments presented against your candidate of choice are invalid? You aren’t making a compelling argument for your cause sir.
    4. Care to be a bit more specific? If you are referring to his ghostwriting, that is bull, since ghostwriting provides the client with full ownership of the work (which they presumably read before having published under their name). No one is above reproach. Arguing youre candidate is good is one thing, a cult of personality is quite another.
    5. Why not judge the candidates on a range of issues? As for adhering to the constitution, I hardly see how advocating for fringe hate groups constitutes support for the constitution.
    6. What on earth makes you think I take the establishment of this nation for granted? Can you provide a quote? Is criticizing the candidate itself such “proof”?
    Really? You don’t like me finding news items and commenting further on them?
    I have a high appreciation of individual liberties, I also have a strong dislike for extremist groups that promote racism and violence.
    7. Do you have an argument to make? What on earth equates Ron Paul with the constitution?
    8. So you buy conspiracy theories. Do you expect them to be debunked in every post about the candidate? Do you really accept that a secret cabal of bankers is out to rule the world through the UN? How about if I add they are developing a secret virus? Or that the bankers are all Jewish? And they are in league with the terrorists? At what point do you get critical, and think “wait a minute”….
    9. He is a fascist in that he supports groups like the “Patriot” movement and other organizations that spew far right propaganda. As for racist, I don’t buy your argument. Why does having MLK and Gandhi as heroes in any way determine whether or not the man is a racist?
    10. Why is it predictable?
    11. Ironic argument, since you do not address his support for racist and fascist groups. Ron Paul is to be applauded for being one of many candidates (although the only republican) who will stand up to the military industrial complex. However that is not his only quality.
    He seems to have cast aspersions on his own name.
    I have no intention of shilling for corporations. Not at all. Read my site. I have every intention of calling out people who try to mainstream extremist talking points like Ron Paul does.
    12. Why is offering criticism of a man’s actions “ignorant trash writing? How does it make me a “character assasin”?
    What I’ve noticed is that commenters by and large view Ron Paul as the embodiment of the constitution. Any criticism of him seems to equate to flaws in my character, and a direct attack on everything that makes America great.
    Cult of personality much?

  15. 13. Nothing at all about peace (maybe limited government, depending on how that is actually implemented), but that is not what I am addressing in this post. It is his support for hate groups that is troublesome, and a very good reason not to vote for the man.
    14. The US is arguably already a fascist state, yes. My motivations were simple. I read David’s post and it resonated with me. It made sense.
    Saying the world is controlled by Jewish bankers is conspiracy, pure and simple. Old, rank, familiar conspiracy. Asking legitimate questions about our country is not at all the subject of this post.
    I do want to engage in debate, and honest debate. I’ve let forth a salvo, not a slur. Ron Paul, through his re-packaging of far-right talking points and speaking gigs at extremist group functions, is not a strong candidate.
    He is dangerous because he makes racist arguments against black people and jews easier to swallow for more people. He has every write to be a douche, but I am certainly going to call him out on it.
    This isn’t a question of isolated policy positions. It is a matter of his past actions calling his character, positions, and candidacy into question.

  16. Ron Paul is not a racist. One thing One of his Aides said 17 Years ago slipped past his radar, and you say that defines him despite decades of constant, undeniable evidence to the contrary???

    Do you Really believe what you are saying (because it is not true), or are you just saying it because you decided you don’t like him, and therefore are willing purposefully lie?

    If you want to debate on whether or not President George Bush Sr. was insane when he said that we were moving towards a “New World Order”, or whether or not that it was really to “protect the weak against the strong”, that would be one thing. Many of those who have done a thorough investigation of the facts have decided that it was to protect the strong from the weak, instead. (Yes, that whole thing was “coined” be the POTUS, not a conspiracy theorist.)

    If you wanted to have an in depth discussion of whether or not President Dwight D. Eisenhower was insane when he described, in great detail, the concerns Americans should have regarding the “Military Industrial Complex”, that would be another. (Yes, that whole thing Also was “coined” be the POTUS, not a conspiracy theorist.)

    When you stand up and smear someone for things they don’t believe it helps to get your facts straight first. When you call people “Conspiracy Nuts” for discussing things that Presidents said to the People, that is just plain odd.

    Please do some real research and decide:

    1. Do you honestly belive Ron Paul is a Racist, and if so, what is your evidence?

    2. Do you really believe that the “New World Order” and the “Military Indusrial Complex” don’t exist, and that Bush Sr. and Eisenhower where on the kool-aid?

    3. Do you really belive our policies are put in place to “protect the weak against the strong”? If so I would suggest counciling…

    Yours Truly, Chris

  17. A Racist?

    Who IS Ron Paul? They still need to know!!
    NOBODY explains Ron Paul
    BETTER than Ron Paul himself!

    Here is an interactive audio archive of
    Ron Paul speeches and interviews as a resource in chronological

  18. The thing that excites me about Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich is that unlike the other anti-war candidates who oppose the war for populist vote winning reasons – Kucinich and Paul actually do so out deeply held principled and ideological reasons.

    So anyone who holds non-consensual and non-mainstream views on the economy, the welfare state, the police state and the nanny state country that we live in, is a nutjob or an extremist?

    Play the ball, not the man – study the libertarian arguments before you condemn them outright.

  19. Yet another smear job. Not very impressive either. Ron Paul must have a lot of support, since you feel the need to smear him. At any rate, you seem particularly uninformed about, and I don’t feel inclined to educate you. So please educate yourself.

  20. the point is we need to raise the level of dialogue in this country from petty name calling to real engaged dialogue that reflects respect for each other views.

    You might not agree with Paul on everything , you might not agree on anything, but you cant argue that cares about this country and he has integrity.

    the reason there are so many conspiracy theories is that allot of odd things have happened, I frankly dont think I know the truth on 9/11, I know there are allot of things that defy my sense of commonsense, there could be explanations for all of it, but my sense is that while the majority of things might have an explanation there has been no real investigation into the questions that have been raised.

    even Iacocca raise issues in his latest book, the sane folks out there (and I hope I am one of them) want a more detailed investigation that is completely independent, thats the way to settle everyone down, open the can of worms completely spread it on the table and take the damn thing apart piece by piece, surely all we can all learn from that, that’s all Paul wants he wants a proper investigation, then the real wing nuts wont get a hold on the general public its the refusal to examine it that’s causing the doubt.

    Same with the currency, this is an area I have deep expertise, Bernanke and his kin are radical inflation monetarists, no country in the world has managed their currency like he is doing in history. No many people understand that the housing price explosion was a in reality not investment growth it was you just the value of your dollar depreciating, the Fed did this on purpose so you would borrow more and spend that money, Bernake calls that the wealth effect after monetary transmission through the RE asset channel

    does that sound conservative? Paul is right sound money is key to the countries future not some elitist academic using the country as an economic test lab for his unproven theories.

    there are hundreds of these

    conservatism is really about managing risk, it means to only change things when your really sure it will work, you keep things the way things are unless there is a very very strong argument for change.

    I don’t mind going to war, but Iraq was shooting craps with our military, it wasn’t conservative, now how many of our generals have to tell us that the military is in danger before we take notice, is it conservative to ignore your military leaders ?

    Is it conservative to let your government grow out of control?, or borrow from the Chinese, or let your industrial base get exported to the same country?, is it conservative to see the constitution as a piece of paper?, is it conservative to allow the integrity of your borders be destroyed? Is pre emptive war conservative, Is Rudy conservative ? How can a 3 times divorced man run for office ? are these the values we ant in a leaders? none of this is conservative, the neocons are con artists they should be run out of town with pitch forks and they should never darken the door of the conservative party ever again. I want them doing time and I want someone with some balls and some integrity to run this country like it ought to be run.

  21. “..particularly long-debunked theories about the “New World Order,” the Federal Reserve and our monetary system, the IRS,”

    You should really do your research on the Federal Reserve. The things that Paul is discussing in that regard is NOT some kind of conspiracy theory.

    Our founding fathers clearly enumerated the powers to coin money to the Congress in the Constitution. Why would we give this power to a for-profit private corporate entity?

    Right before 1913, when the Fed was established, the Democratic party ran their presidential election bid in opposition to the central bank and won due to this issue. Somehow they managed to lobby Woodrow Wilson to pass it through anyways! So they waited until all of the Congressman but a handful had gone home for Christmas to sneak the bill through!

    The Fed has systematically undermined the people and our government through inflation ever since. I really don’t understand the people who can be apologists on this issue!!! Get your hands off from over your ears and really do some research on the Federal Reserve. What do you think has caused all of this inflation, why is the purchasing power of our dollars going down?

  22. 17. Ron Paul published an article under his name claiming 95% of black males in the DC area were criminals. He has appeared before racist groups like the CCC (the scions of the KKK). That is the evidence he is a racist (question 1).

    Before I read David’s post, I thought Ron Paul was a libertarian, and an interesting republican candidate. I also wrote about the censorship of his supporters over at CNN. After reading it, I decided his past association with hate groups was a compelling argument against him.

    There is a difference between quoting a President’s words and repackaging the protocols of the elders of zion for wider consumption. While there is certainly a military industrial complex, Ron Paul blames the UN for most of our problems, accepts the notion of “banking elites”, and seems determined to be alarmist about giving up our sovereignty.

    For question 2, I do think there is a military industrial complex, to be sure, but the new world order theory smells of conspiracy and anti-UN (read international rule of law) mumbo jumbo, with a dash of anti-semitism thrown in for good measure.

    For question 3, how does that relate to my post? Which policies? Are you asking me to judge all American laws under one blanket dictum?

    18. Again, no argument here, just a blind “support Ron Paul” statement.

    19. You seem to have read the title of my post, and not the content. He is an extremist for his support of extremist groups, both by making appearences at their functions, and by helping them move their arguments into the mainstream.

    20. “Educate yourself” does not present a challenge to any of the arguments presented in this post. I do not feel the need to smear the man, just to call attention to his unethical associations and questionable statements.

    21. I am arguing precisely that the man lacks integrity. If you support groups like the CCC, you lack integrity. Period. And how can a man who is so paranoid about international law and the UN, and so supportive of hate groups care about his country? Its the kind of care then ends up with someone getting hurt, and in this case it would be the voting public.

    Some of the theories on the Fed are definitely compelling, even if only because the Fed is predicated on wrongheaded notions about what constitutes economic health. Also the war with Iraq was surely a costly and terrible mistake. Our debt to the Chinese government (or any government) is also a valid point of much worry. The neocons should be run out of town with pitch forks, and hopefully locked up for the crimes they have committed. But these points do not excuse or address Ron Paul’s support of hate groups, or this post.

    22. From chapter 5 on David’s book “In Gods Country: The Patriot Movement and the Pacific Northwest”:

    The Freemen justified this with an argument straight out of Roy Schwasinger’s seminars: The federal government was bankrupt and illegally printing bogus money anyway, money that no longer had any basis, since the government took the dollar off the gold standard in 1971. So the Freemen were free to create their own money out of equally thin air — not only that, but by basis of the “constitutional” nature of the common-law courts that issued the liens, their system was more legitimate than the federal government’s.

    The alternative-universe notion that the Federal Reserve system prints “funny money” based on no real foundation has floated about on the far right for years, and is a key component of some cult belief systems like Lyndon LaRouche’s. In reality, the modern international monetary system is based on the economic engine behind each kind of currency — the levels of supply and demand that a nation produces. It is, like all economic systems, essentially a mental construct, but it has very real grounding in the work of producing goods and services within each nation. The American dollar’s continuing strength abroad is a reflection of our nation’s output; indeed, it is still considered the basis of most international currency rates.

    Those who argue that money must be based on some hard commodity — usually gold and silver — ignore the fact that when a currency is based on gold, the value given to gold is as essentially arbitrary as that assigned to paper currency. That is, the value of gold would rise and decline according to the value of the output behind the economic system using it as a standard. Indeed, since gold is still used in manufacturing and jewelry-making, the crossover between gold as a commodity and gold as an expression of currency had the tendency to destabilize the currency system, which is why the United States went off the gold standard in 1971.

  23. The author/s of this piece is/areobviously clueless.

    GATT/WTO, NAFTA, FTAA are not conspiracy theories. They ARE New World Order. Ron Paul is staunchly against subverting our national sovereignty to these UNELECTED, International bodies. Why exactly do you have problem with this???

    As far as the Federal Reserve Bank — yes, it is an elite club, and once again, UNELECTED, that call the shots on monetary policy. These people are PRIVATE bankers who more often than not have their own personal agendas at the top of any other. Do you actually support this kind of nonsense???

    As far as your “fascist-right” assertions go, obviously you don’t understand the term. Fascism is the marriage of Corporate Power and the Government. Obviously you did not hear him say on the Jon Stewart show the other night, “There’s a difference between the Free Market and Corporatism. Corporatism is Halliburton, and that’s evil.” I actually appreciate a candidate who recoginizes the difference. Are any Democrats doing the same? Not.

    Secession? I acutually support the concept. If the Federal Government refuses to represent ALL the people, then the people have the right to break from it and be free. I for one would support the creation of Cascadia. Smaller is better. This nation has turned into a murderous and unmanagable Empire — it’s time to break free.

    As far as racism goes — yes it’s true Hispanics are murdering Blacks in Southern California in a mini genocide ordered by the Mexican Mafia, which is well-documented by the LA Times — otherwise you only provide conjecture and heresay.

    Sounds to me like your real agenda in the piece is to support the Status Quo (Corporate Power) — I mean, do you REALLY believe that Hillary Obama vs. Rudy McRomneyson represents a serious choice for American voters???

  24. You don’t think there’s a New World Order? A planned North American Union scheduled to launch in 2011? Fitness, Ron Paul isn’t a nutjob.

  25. 24. I have no problem with standing up to NAFTA.
    I have a problem with someone advocating the Jews are behind
    a massive conspiracy to instutute a world government.
    Does Ron Paul support the international criminal court?
    The UN? Are those part of the New World Order?
    Does he believe black helicopters or aliens are involved?
    Is this all a masonic plot?

    Listen, speaking truth to power about the manipulations of the powerful is always honorable and valuable. But spreading paranoia about international
    organizations just doesn’t make sense.

    I understand the term fascism with clarity.
    Groups that talk about taking the US back for white christians,
    advocate for and support militias, and scream about the aclu
    are fascists. Ron Paul should not be helping them out.
    Period. His quote on corporatism was amazing, even inspiring
    to hear coming from a politician. But why can’t we hold his
    feet to the fire for supporting groups like the CCC?

    Who mentioned secession?

    On racism… Can you address Ron Paul’s take on black crime? Or his conviction that Jewish bankers are trying to rule the world?

    My real agenda is to call bullshit when I see it.
    And with Ron Paul, he is not the second coming of George Washington.
    He is a man, with flaws. And calling him out on them is all the more
    essential if the man wants to become the next President.

    25. Chris, I can see plenty of attempts to move towards world government, but I don’t think they are all sinister. I also don’t believe in black helicopters, evil alien invaders, or any of the other claptrap that goes along with the NWO conspiracy theories. It is ridiculous for a candidate to side with fear over reason. Not all international organizations are bad. The UN? The international criminal court? Part of the drive to the Iraq war was the exploitation of anti-UN sentiment. If the UN is such a part of the global conspiracy (as is Bush et al), why wouldn’t Bush do everything he could to support its legitimacy? Instead he attacks it with the same ferocity as a neo-nazi attacks the imaginary Jewish bankers who “rule the world”. If there is a NWO, is Bush really a freedom fighter? I can’t swallow that.

    26. What point do you wish to make by linking to that video?

  26. […] 10th, 2007 I posted a pointer to David Neiwert’s take on Ron Paul, The NWO, and his ties to racist and extremist groups. […]

  27. Wow, using the Daily Kos, written by 12-year olds as a source? Not credible.

    You can’t touch Ron he has impeccable creds.
    There is nothing you can say bad about him. He is 100% honest and true and has an excellent record of voting FOR THE PEOPLE.

    There is just no ‘there, there’. 🙂


  28. Hmm you really are a hate and fear monger aren’t you sonny boy?

    Well let me tell you, I don’t know why you don’t ask the other candidates these questions. They want TWO Guantanamos!

    (An actual quote from Romney which will do him in!)

    It is obvious that the writer of this blog is scared this good man might win.

    To address the race question, not that it ever was important, his writer was just citing FIGURES. FIGURES don’t lie. If a population of a city is 98% black, then it makes sense that most of the crime is committed by blacks…and in fact, it’s black on black crime that is the most. So?

    Why do facts always scare people? This has nothing to do with racism people, but everything to do with the writer of this blog’s’ hatred for someone who believes in the CORRECT role of government…and that is, it’s gotten out of hand.

  29. 27. I have a problem with someone advocating the Jews are behind a massive conspiracy to institute a world government.

    ***Who said anything about JEWS? It’s the people who make the rules, and influence the gov’ts, like Soros who bought the Democrat party.

    Does Ron Paul support the international criminal court?

    ***I HOPE NOT! He needs to tell them where to die.

    The UN? Are those part of the New World Order?

    ***Does not support the UN and yes, they do rule by treaty which is against our Constitution. They run our public schools. Which is why they are full of smut and ridiculousness. If he supported the UN I would not be voting for him. You ought to know the UN is BAD. ON the face of it.

    Does he believe black helicopters or aliens are involved?
    Is this all a masonic plot?

    ***Never heard him mention it, so no, don’t think so. Now you are talking like a 12 year old.

    Listen, speaking truth to power about the manipulations of the powerful is always honorable and valuable. But spreading paranoia about international organizations just doesn’t make sense.

    ***No paranoia, just fact. You should be afraid. The country is bankrupt…and we owe China. Does that not bother you? Do you run your household on a deficit?

    I understand the term fascism with clarity.

    ***Im beginning to think you do..

    Groups that talk about taking the US back for white christians,
    advocate for and support militias, and scream about the aclu
    are fascists.

    ***So what do they have to do with RP? Now wait a moment. The ACLU is for the most part, scum that enforces political correctness. What has that got to do with facism? The ACLU are facists if you must.

    Ron Paul should not be helping them out.

    ***He’s helping the common man. He is not responsible for who ever else gets helped.

    Period. His quote on corporatism was amazing, even inspiring
    to hear coming from a politician. But why can’t we hold his
    feet to the fire for supporting groups like the CCC?

    ***Who the hell is the CCC? Hey he can’t control every person who supports him. Do you see the MSM getting all panties in a twist becaues the CPUSA supports the Clintons? That’s Communist Party, USA BUD. RIGHT! COMMUNISTS. But that’s OK because the MSM said so I guess. Is it OK that HIllary was trained by the Gramscis? You never hear about that. In Europe no less.

    Who mentioned secession?

    ***Secession from what?

    On racism… Can you address Ron Paul’s take on black crime?

    ***Just facts.

    Or his conviction that Jewish bankers are trying to rule the world?

    ***BANKERS do rule the world. They might be Jewish, but you are blaming him for THAT??? Egads.

    My real agenda is to call bullshit when I see it.

    *** Yup me too, and you’ve gone overboard.

    And with Ron Paul, he is not the second coming of George Washington.

    *** Well he’s the closest thing to it.

    He is a man, with flaws. And calling him out on them is all the more essential if the man wants to become the next President.

    ***But you are having a tough time because….there aren’t any.

    And I am about to secede from this ridiculous blog… buh bye!

  30. 29. Again with the cult of personality NH. Nothing bad I can say about him? Really? The man is faultless? I don’t feel that way about any of the candidates. Nor should I. Such blind faith leads directly to authoritarianism and a totalitarian state. Question everything, even the politicians you support.

    30. NH, You can condescend all you want to me, and to blogs like dkos. That won’t make your points for you. You seem to be ironically dead on about facts scaring people. Read my post on Ron Paul, Hate, and the Cult of Straight Talk. He has a long history of supporting white supremacist groups. The so called figures cited come from a very questionable source: Jared Taylor, who is known for his difficulty supporting his claims as he is for his racism.

    This post has everything to do with someone who found an interesting candidate, looked a little deeper, and found a web of racism, fear, misinformation and hate. Being critical is an essential responsibility in a republic. It may seem easier to be uncritical in where you place your trust, but how do you decide who gets the benefit of your blind faith? And once hooked, are you caught? Or can you wriggle free?

    If Ron Paul was a good man, I would want to help him win. But supporting the extremist hate groups is not something a good man does. It is important to point this out.

  31. 31, NH,
    If Soros bought the Democratic party, why aren’t they being more compliant?
    Ron Pauls arguments about the “banking elites” are a wink wink nudge nudge nod to the “evil jewish banker” mythology.

    The international criminal court is a step towards making rule of law and human rights global. This is the noblest of goals, and it is shortsited and ignorant to stand against it.

    You believe the UN fills our schools with smut? How? What “smut” and “ridiculousness” are you even referring to?

    And it is at all mature to believe the UN is BAD and part of a plot to rule the world? The UN has problems, to be sure, but the aim of ensuring peace is a noble one, and best accomplished by countries working together.

    “No paranoia, just fact. You should be afraid”. And you have the temerity to place both sentences in such proximity! Yes, our debt bothers me,
    but frankly, that has little to do with fearing the international criminal court or the UN. And fear itself is something to avoid, not move us to action!

    Ron Paul is helping the fascists out.
    This isn’t helping the “common man”. Or is the “common man” in your estimation a white supremacist?

    Covering your eyes with your hands will not make Ron Pauls flaws disappear.
    Nor will it make my essential arguments fail.
    Supporting racists and hate groups is in no way honorable.
    Ron Paul is in no way the closest thing to Washington.

    “And I am about to secede from this ridiculous blog… buh bye!”
    You are welcome to come and go as you please.
    Your arguments will just have to remain where they are, without a leg to stand on.

  32. You make good points, FftO, I find Ron Paul a very compelling candidate but an abstract piece by him on how “racism is ‘simply’ an ugly form of collectivism” is not enough to answer some of my small doubts about him.

    It is clear that most of his supporters do not care much for having him dispel such concerns preferring to engage in apologist stances and paranoid accusations of smear campaigning by others when they happen to raise legitimate concerns.

    I find that Ron Paul has a lot of great ideas, but would like to hear more about his view on liberty and how it applies to the different minorities in the United States. We’d like to hear more from the man himself rather than his [often immature and rabid] supporters because so far he has offered up brilliant answers to every difficult question posed to him.

  33. 34. Thanks Jon P. While I don’t think he’s waxed brilliant on every difficult question posed to him, the man does have his moments. I would love to hear more, if only to get an alternative discourse to the mainstream view of republicanism playing in the media. He is very much a Kucinich figure in that respect. But the man needs to take a strong stand on hate, and separate himself from the white supremacist groups he’s supported in the past.

  34. If Dr. Paul is a “racist”, then you’re a stalinist.

  35. 36. Why do so many Ron Paul supporters insist on wrapping themselves in the flag rather than making any kind of argument?

  36. WTF?

    This is a classic ad hominem attack with a bonus unsupported circular reasoning. . . make a claim attacking the character of a man and not his ideas, then use that claim as evidence that his ideas are bad as a result. All the while, never supporting or giving any solid evidence (accurate citations or primary sources) to support the original claim.

    This entire thing is crap.

  37. 38. Latimer, where is the circular argument?
    I stated the problem (Ron Paul’s support for extremist groups) and how he does it (speaking gigs and articles).

    If a politician supports supremacists and neo-nazis, pointing this out is not an ad-hominem. Its called criticism.

  38. If Ron Paul is crazy for talking about the New World Order, than Gordon Brown, the new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, is one of the wackiest people ever to grace public office.

  39. mike,
    He appears to be saying “the world is changing. to adapt, we need to invest in our economies, the environment, and education.”

    Hardly conspiracy theory worthy save for the words “New World Order”.

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